Interview with Danette Doetzel
If Danette Doetzel had grown up in the U.S., she would have received a great deal of media attention as a high school phenom. Before she ever competed in the NCAA, Doetzel had already recorded a PR of 9:35 in the 3,000m and competed at the World Cross Country Championships twice. Because she was a native of Macklin, Saskatchewan, she was able to step onto the campus of Michigan State in the fall of 2004 a little bit under the radar. This did not last, however, as she immediately won a Big Ten Cross Country title, finished 12th at the NCAA Cross Country Championships as a freshman, placed 14th in the junior race at the World Cross Country Championships the following spring, and set a new Canadian Junior 5,000m record of 15:52.
After completing her freshman year at Michigan State, Doetzel opted to transfer to Providence College. Because Michigan State did not release her, Doetzel was forced to sit out one year, while she adjusted to life and running at Providence College. For a couple years, Doetzel appeared to struggle, only occasionally showing flashes of the brilliance she had displayed as a first-year runner at Michigan State. Doetzel stuck it out, however, and steadily improved. In 2008, in only her second attempt at the event, she finished second to a dominant Lisa Koll in the 10,000 meters at the NCAA Outdoor Track & Field Championships. One year later, Doetzel improved her finish by one spot, kicking away from the field with one kilometer to go and winning her first NCAA title in her final collegiate race. Her winning time of 33:25.71 in a tactical race was just two seconds shy of her personal best. Doetzel also set a 5,000 meter personal best earlier in the season, running 15:46.76 at the Mt. SAC Relays. Doetzel finished out her collegiate career with five All-America honors, three Big East titles, and two Northeast Regional cross country titles.
We caught up with Doetzel 11 days after her NCAA victory, as she prepared to head off to Toronto to compete at the Canadian Track & Field Championships.
EliteRunning.com: Congratulations on your NCAA 10,000 meter title. That
seems like the perfect ending to your collegiate career.
Danette Doetzel: I couldn't have asked for a better way to finish my collegiate
career, especially given the way the race played out. I felt good, I was able
to run one of my best last [kilometers]. I couldn't have really asked for anything
better; I'm very happy with it.
ER.com: We were impressed with your speed at the end of that race. Is that
something you'd been training to be able to do?
DD: I totally changed my training from what I used to do my freshman year
and in high school. That took a long time for me to get used to because I started
to use a totally different system. I've injected a lot more miles, a lot more
strength workouts rather than just speed... and I have started to do a lot more
tempo runs. I think that a culmination of all of those components has greatly
improved my strength and given me the ability to finish as I did.
My first year at Providence College, just getting used to the new system, I kept dealing with little injuries here and there. But then, going into my junior year of running things really started to click and I finally got some continuity in my training. So I've just been building for the last two years, just trying to get in something good every day. I guess it has been that strength that allowed me to finish in a 3:00 last [kilometer] at NCAAs. With what I was doing in high school, we never really would have thought I'd have that kind of kick, so it has purely been my coach's [Ray Treacy] training program that has brought on that turnover and allowed me to become a lot stronger.
The first time we saw that speed happened during the indoor season [at the 2009 Big East Championships]. To get the 5k time for nationals, we figured we'd take it out easy and just try to work the last mile. I ended up running the last mile in 4:51 and we were like, 'That's pretty good; I guess I can move at the end.' And then the next day, I ran the 3k and we took somewhere around 9:30 pace, but I ended up running a 2:57 last 1k and I ended up with a 9:13. After that we knew [the speed] was there, we just had to keep training the way we were and racing smart so at the end, I could [produce] that kick.
ER.com: During that 10,000 at nationals, when you went, were you pretty
confident that no one was going to be able to stay with you?
DD: At 5k, I thought, 'Okay, I have a chance to win this. I don't know if
I'm going to, but I know I can give it a good run.' And then with about 2-1/2k
left, I thought, 'Okay, I'm ready for this. Anybody who wants to go and make
a move I know I can go with you and try to stick with you.' I just tried to
stay relaxed and then with 1k to go, I passed [Coach Ray Treacy] and he said,
'Okay, open it up.' I decided no one was really going to take it so I started
to kick and give it a go, I guess it worked out pretty well.
ER.com: You mentioned your high school training as being different from
your college training. How would you describe your high school training?
DD: It was definitely low mileage and I did a lot more quality workouts.
We worked out pretty much every day—we did something on the track or something
on dirt loop, k repeats, those kinds of things, mostly every day. But I didn't
do really long runs until I got to college; very seldom would I just go and
do a long run, it was just more quality and speed.
ER.com: How would you say that worked for you?
DD: It was good; it was very intense. I had kind of carried on with that
same kind of training through my freshman year, so when I came to Providence,
Ray looked over what I was doing instead of just slapping me with a new program.
He wanted to see what I had been doing before we made any big changes. My old
schedule was very intense and it was hard to always keep that going—most of
what I did was fast all of the time, so it felt like a lot of stress on the
body even though the mileage was very low. It didn't really break you down,
but mentally, you just felt like you were really expending yourself every day.
Now my training is a lot more gradual and relaxed. You don't really attack everyday,
you just do what's on the schedule in a controlled manner and then over the
long run, it just builds up and makes you stronger. I think there's a little
more room for forward progression because it's hard, but it doesn't kill you.
Ray's a very patient coach so he'd rather see a gradual progression instead
of getting in shape very quickly and having to try to hold on to it. He's definitely
reshaped the way I do things and has taught me a lot about taking things a little
bit easier.
ER.com: I can imagine that because your running wasn't going that well when
you first arrived at Providence that you might have questioned the training.
Did you always have confidence that things were going to work out.?
DD: I definitely had a few rough years—and even this year in cross
country. Having to sit out the year after I left Michigan State definitely threw
me through a loop. I lost that consistency that I had in racing, finishing every
race average or a little better than expected. After sitting out, I felt like
I was starting from zero all over again. I probably should have bounced back
a lot quicker, but I guess everybody's their own worst critic, so when I came
back I thought that the only thing that would be good enough would be if I was
running as fast or faster than what I had been running before. I had placed
all of these barriers in front of myself. Overcoming those was very tough and
I probably should have set my standards a little lower when I was coming back
that first year, just so I could gradually progress and get back into shape.
Because I needed time that I obviously wasn't giving myself, so not being able
to reach those standards right from the beginning did hurt me pretty badly.
After I kept failing (based on my standards) I figured that maybe I just wasn't
good enough, or I was just lucky my freshman year. That played with my head
a lot and made it hard going into races, and obviously, if you ever enter a
race where you think you're not equal with everyone around you, you may as well
not be entered because you're not ready to compete.
ER.com: You have a really interesting career path in that you were able
to come back stronger in the past couple of years. A lot of young female distance
runners do well when they are young, and when they experience a hiatus like
yours, the more typical story line is that they don't come back as fast as they
once were, whether it's due to burnout or other circumstances. What do you think
helped you and how do you think you were able to come back so well?
DD: I pay a lot of tribute to Coach Ray Treacy; he's a very smart coach.
He knows what you need to do to be a good runner and what he needs to see from
you. He has instilled that in all of the girls who have graduated from here
and have gone on to do really well. Having him and Kim Smith, Mary Cullen, Roisin
McGettigan and Molly Huddle all telling you what they've learned based on their
past experience and what you need to do to get back on top. Having that really
helped me a lot and gave me a new perspective on running, something totally
different than what I had my freshman year. Always keeping in the back of my
mind what I needed to do to, and seeing it every day really helped. But with
that said, there was definitely that haunting [voice] in the back of my head
asking, 'Am I going to be another one who never really gets back?' For a long
time, that really ate at me and I maybe started thinking very negatively. Even
through all of this though, I always worked really hard no matter what. Looking
back, if I had just been able to race with the same competitive edge that I
was showing in my workouts... I think the outcome would have been a lot better..
Like you said, a lot of people might have thought I would have taken the same path that some girls do. However, I think the fact that I can only really function when I know I am putting something in has helped me gradually build over the years and get back into top form. I guess I also just really wanted to prove that statistic wrong and end on a good note. I think the hardest part is falling off times that you could run easily before, and worrying if you will ever get back to that again. When that starts to happen you question everything including yourself and most times, this results in many people giving up or throwing in the towel. For me, when that happened, it was really hard to deal with. However, I am not the type of person who can just exist and pretend like everything is fine even when it isn't. Something I didn't do was give up, I was here [in the U.S.] and using up a scholarship so I was going to put in the work required of me. I had moved away from my family in Canada; I'm a long way from home, like a lot of athletes are and wasn't going to waste the opportunity I was given. It's a big sacrifice for everybody, so no matter what happened and no matter what I was feeling, I just couldn't give up and never stopped working.
ER.com: Did you always know that you were going to go
to college in the U.S.? How did that come about?
DD: That was my goal. I did cross country in grades 5-8, but I had no
idea it was a national sport, a collegiate sport, let alone anything other than
an intramural activity. I was shocked and amazed when I found out that it was
actually a big-time sport and you could get a scholarship out of it if you were
good enough. I was opened to this reality my freshman year in high school, when
I was introduced to my high school coach. I'm from a very small town of about
1,400 people, which is probably pushing it [laughs]. So when I met my coach
Steve [Gersten], he knew that training probably wasn't going to be the best
in Macklin, so when I was 15, the year after I met him, I actually moved to
Regina, about five hours from my home. I lived with a family in the city for
grades 10-12 and trained with the club there in hopes that I could improve and
progress at a rate that would open up some doors for coming to the U.S. and
running in the NCAA.
ER.com: Did you live with your coach?
DD: No, I lived with a family who had a couple of kids who were going
to the same high school. I moved in with the family, paid rent and stayed with
them throughout the school year. While they oversaw a lot of my daily activities,
I had a lot of responsibilities that I was in charge of that most kids growing
up don't really have to deal with until college. It was definitely a big move.
ER.com: Are you close with your family? How often have
you been able to see them over the years?
DD: In high school, I was able to go home about 4-5 times a year. In
college, I'd get home about twice a year. But now it's getting harder since
I have graduated. In college, you're not really doing much over the summer,
so you can just kind of go home for two months no problem. But now I'll be racing
a little bit more so it is hard to get a solid block where I can go home and
really make the trip worth it. I am currently trying to figure out when I'll
be able to get home. It doesn't look like it'll be until possibly August or
later so my parents aren't too happy to hear that.
It's also a bit of a bummer when planning the trip home for Christmas because of the weather. Its so hard at Christmas because it's about minus 35 degrees [laughs] so I usually try to go home for a little bit and then head somewhere warm so I can keep running. It makes it really tough, just being far away and in a location that's not the best suited for running. But because I am so close with my family they have always been very understanding and a huge support system, better than I could ask for. My parents and siblings have always had my back when I was making decisions that weren't always in their favor and for that I am very thankful. Since I started running, they never said 'no' or took away an opportunity I might have had. This is why I was able to move away when I was so young. They didn't want to have to look back and say that they had held me back from maybe accomplishing something I wanted to try, leaving me to ask the age old question, "What if?" The sacrifice was, and still is, hard and sometimes you question whether it's worth it. But after a finish like this, and looking back on my experiences both good and bad, and having my mom and sister, two people who have seen me struggle through both, witness me finish my last race the way I did, I mean that's when you know it was worth it.
ER.com: So they were able to make it to NCAAs?
DD: Yes, my mom and my sister were able to come. That was actually the first
race my sister got to see me run in college.
ER.com: Is your sister older or younger?
DD: She's older.
ER.com: Do you have any other siblings?
DD: Yes, I have a younger sister too, so I'm the middle child.
ER.com: Are you the only runner in the family?
DD: Well, my mom started running just to stay in shape—same with
my sisters, but I was the only one who ever pursued it seriously and was involved
in track. I have always been a crazy off-the-wall kind of kid, basically like
the Energizer Bunny, so my parents were always looking to keep me occupied.
I think what made running something that seemed natural to do was watching my
dad run when both my sister and I were very young. Saskatchewan is not really
like the running Mecca of the country or continent [laughs], so it wasn't really
a commonplace pastime, but I always enjoyed chasing after my dad on my little
bike when he would head out for a run. I'd try to catch him before he got to
the end of his loop and turned to head back home. I think my legs had to go
about a million turns a minute, but even then I loved the challenge and the
competition I would make with my sister to see who could catch him first. I
don't think it was a mutual competition; [laughs] I just wanted to beat her,
so I created one in my head. I guess the desire to test myself and push through
the pain was with me even when I was young, probably one of the reasons I love
to run.
My younger sister runs as well, but not with the same perspective. She's very good at softball, so she kind of stuck with that, and my older sister is very talented musically, so we each kind of had our own little thing, I guess.
ER.com: You mentioned that you're going to compete at Canadian Nationals.
What's the plan for that?
DD: I head to Canadian Nationals on Wednesday and I race the 5k on Thursday.
I'll be sticking around Canada for about a week, and then I come back to Providence
and I fly out for Belgium. I'm going there for three weeks to try to run a few
fast 5ks, hopefully.
ER.com: Are you aiming to qualify for the World Championship team? How does
the process work?
DD: The standard is pretty quick. The way that the Canadian system works,
I think I would have had to get one of the standards back in April and another
one now. I don't think I'm quite ready for 15:24 yet, but hopefully in the upcoming
years I'll be closer to getting those standards.
ER.com: So in order to make the team, you'd probably have to run at least
15:24 twice?
DD: Yes, that's the 'B' standard. It's hard to peak to be able to hit those
standards like that while still in the college system—to be able to run your
fastest in April and then be able to hold on and run it again at the end of
the season is tough. So we didn't really think about it. I'll have plenty of
time to focus on that aspect of competing. Right now we just wanted to focus
on the college season and putting all of the eggs in a basket that would help
me run well when it counts; nationals and conference.
ER.com: So what is your goal for the rest of the season?
DD: I would like to be able to run PRs in the 5k. My first meet of the
outdoor season, I ran 15:46 out at Mt. SAC. We were happy with it, but sometimes
I need a race, like a lot of people do, to get going, so hopefully I'll be able
to improve on that in Europe and run low 15:40s, maybe break into the 15:30s-high
if I can...that would be great.
ER.com: Have you been in touch with any potential sponsors or had any offers
yet? How's that going?
DD: It's a tough time because of the economy, so things are a lot tighter
this year than they have been in previous years. My perspective on things has
kind of changed. I always felt like there was this pressure—which [dictated
that] you could only keep running if you got some big contract. But over the
years, just growing up, I've realized that you have to run because you love
it. So whether something comes or not, you can't really worry about that. Hopefully
you can make it work, but seeing a lot of older women throughout the U.S. win
longer races after a bit of a break from college has really been an inspiration.
They run because they love it and they are succeeding. I think that is a huge
part of the formula for doing well...you have to be doing it for the right reasons,
regardless of whether you're getting support or not. It really inspired me to
just do it for the same reason I started in the first place—because I love
it. As of now, I haven't really heard anything, but I'm just going to hope something
comes up, keep working, and try to progress so I have more to bring to the table.
ER.com: Yes, it really is a rough year for sponsorships, but hopefully things
will turn around soon.
DD: Yeah, hopefully, but I think it's good, because after you finish
college, and after winning, it would be easy to think, 'Ah, I made it through,
and it ended well.' I won the NCAA title, life is good.' But I still have so
many things I want to work to achieve, so this just gives me more to keep fighting
and working for. It keeps that fire going and you can't really sit back, be
complacent, and say, 'I've already got everything.' It gives me something more
to work for so that if I can achieve and attain it, I will feel more accomplished.
ER.com: So are you going to be training in Providence next year?
DD: Yes, I'm going to be based in Providence. I'm going to be living with
another girl who I ran with in college and is my best friend, she still has
a couple seasons left, and another guy who also will be running for Providence
College next year. I'll be living in Providence and training with Ray and the
girls.
ER.com: You have quite a group of women to train with in Providence, correct?
DD: The level of female athletes we have to train with here is pretty
phenomenal. There's Molly Huddle, Kim Smith, Roisin McGettigan, Mary Cullen—there
are so many extremely talented girls it is crazy. However, while I'm not ready
to work out with some of them, there are ways I can work with each one of them
on different things that will lead to a well-rounded training regime. With workouts
though, I'll probably tone them back a bit because I'm not quite ready to run
with them. But we will all be at the track and working together, so it's really
good. Just to be within reach of girls who have run as fast as they have is
something really remarkable to see day in and day out.
ER.com: You wouldn't necessarily guess that Providence, Rhode Island would
become a hotbed for women's distance runners because of the weather, but I guess
that's a testament to what Ray Treacy has been able to accomplish at Providence
College.
DD: Yeah, Ray's the anchor behind that. We stick around because we know
he's a great coach and he's gotten us all to where we are now. There's always
the option that you can stick around for a little while and then head somewhere
else when the weather gets cold. Speaking of weather, right now, I'm looking
out the window and it looks like we're about to get a hurricane [laughs] but
we kind of just throw that behind us when we're running. I guess it makes you
stronger to have a few elements to face every day.
ER.com: Which events do you think you'll focus on in your post-collegiate
career? Has anyone mentioned marathoning to you, or do you want to stick with
something shorter?
DD: Yeah, that's where I'm sort of looking. My favorite part of the week
is my long run. I love my 13-mile run; I can't wait until it gets longer. Ray
is the one who said he thinks I'll be good at the longer distance, so with that
said, we'll see how that looks in the coming years. The marathon is such a different
animal, you can't really predict one way or another how it's going to go until
you actually run one. We'll probably try a half marathon in the next year and
just sort of work up towards that. But that's probably what I'll be focused
on.
ER.com: Will you get a job, or will you focus on running full-time?
DD: I will have a job over the next to help pay for everything, but will
focus mostly on running and training very well.
ER.com: What will you do beyond the one year. Will you
be able to stay in the U.S.?
DD: Yeah, I'm probably going to try to go to grad school, which will
be another two years. Then I'll be able to take another OPT [optional practical
training, which extends her visa] after I finish my graduate degree, so that
buys me at least three more years.
ER.com: What did you study at Providence?
DD: I studied Marketing and Finance.
ER.com: Would you want to go to grad school for something similar?
DD: I'd probably stick with the business area. There aren't a lot of options
for grad school at Providence College, so I might go for an MBA.
ER.com: But one with a very good running tradition.
DD: Exactly. It's kind of funny, Providence kind of caught my eye when
I was in high school, but it was pretty far from home and people were saying,
'No, do this. Do that.' When you're a young and impressionable high schooler,
you go with what people tell you. Either way, I guess it was meant to be since
I found my way despite going elsewhere first.
ER.com: You mentioned how different your training was when you went to Providence
College. Can you describe what your training is like now in terms of mileage
and what a week might look like at various points in the season?
DD: I mostly stick to a pretty similar schedule. I'll do approximately 70-75
miles a week. A big week now would be like 82 miles, which is really high for
me and I probably only hit that once. So while I guess it's high mileage, it's
not overly high. We'll work out every fourth day. So starting on Sunday would
probably be 10 miles, or 7 and 3, and then I'd have a long run (Monday), another
10 or 7 and 3 (Tuesday), and then my workout (Wednesday). Ray will never tell
you your workout [laughs]. We'd try to get it out of him and beg him, but he
won't tell you until you're on the track, which is probably good, otherwise
I'd sit and mull over it all day and work myself up over it. And the next workout
would fall four days after that. In between there, it's a mix of 7 and 3, or
8 and 3, or 10.
ER.com: Are you doing your distance runs at a fast pace?
DD: People like to make fun of me here because I run too fast. I'm really
trying to slow down so that I can work out better, but I get carried away. They're
moderate runs, around 6:30 miles for all of those runs, sometimes a bit quicker
[laughs]...I better keep that quiet. While it's simple and doable, there is
a very effective method behind it.
ER.com: What would your workout days look like?
DD: It depends. We kind of alternate every workout between intervals
and a tempo, but it really depends on where we are in the racing season. But
say we didn't have a race for a while, I'd probably do a five-mile tempo on
Wednesday at 5:30 mile pace. So there would be the warm-up, the tempo, the cool
down, and then three miles later on in the day. Then the next workout, we'd
probably head to the track. That could be a ladder like 1200-800-600-400 x 2,
or straight ks, miles, 800s etc...Recently we've been adding 400s to the end
of workouts, just to get our legs going after they have already put in the work,
which is great for stimulating the end of the race, or so I like to think they
do [laughs]. Ray might have another reason we do them that I just haven't figured
out yet.
Ray's really good at looking at each person individually and finding out what makes them tick. If you're training with a group and you need something the other people don't, he would never sacrifice one person's needs for the sake of the group, even if working out all together would be easier. He works with you on a very individual basis.
ER.com: What would you say is your favorite type of workout?
DD: I like tempos a lot, but I guess I'd probably have to say 400s [laughs].
I'm not too speedy, but 400s are nice. I try not to build up a complex around
too many workouts, because I did that for a while with 800s, and I started to
really hate 800s. But this season, I found myself doing so many workouts that
had 800s, I was able to work through them and feel stronger both physically
and mentally. I overcame the dread of an 800 workout and when I was given the
go-ahead at nationals to kick with a kilometer to go, the distance no longer
felt daunting.
ER.com: How fast can you run a 400?
DD: If I'm doing like 12 of them, I'll probably average around 70, with
a few under that. I ran a 59 once in high school, but that was way back when
[laughs]. I don't know if my legs would go that fast anymore.
[Photo by Randy Miyazaki/TrackAndFieldPhoto.com. Interview conducted June 22, 2009.]
